tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post7043732736355448898..comments2024-03-28T14:35:30.147-04:00Comments on Tank Archives: Axis Guns vs German TanksPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-27747873835690308662016-06-22T08:26:47.485-04:002016-06-22T08:26:47.485-04:00The 75mm L70 PGr. 39 (PANTHERs KWK42) cannot be re...The 75mm L70 PGr. 39 (PANTHERs KWK42) cannot be relied upon to penetrate the TIGER Ausf. B turret front. Rated penetration of this round at 920m/s velocity in german armour penetration tests communicated by WaPrüf (5 out of 5 times in a row with an intact projectile completely behind the plate, no failures allowed) was 185mm RHA (70 to 80kg/mm^2 tensile strength), dropping to 147mm RHA (~80kg/mm^2) at 30°, 90mm RHA (95-105kg/mm^2) at 45° and 60mm RHA(105-115kg/mm^2) at 60°. <br />It´s close to the TIGER Ausf. B´s 180mm front, but the latter was not vertical but declined a bit (10°) and this rendered penetration unreliable.<br /><br />That being said, You may expect a couple of penetrations out of ten good quality shells fired in a row from a perfectly aligned target plate and with a gun without any muzzle wear.<br /><br />The 50° 150mm glacis plate cannot be penetrated by the 75mm (or 88mm, or 128mm), though as all homogenious armour that thick, it may be cracked or holed, depending on the circumstances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-9761535603645869772016-05-25T01:51:38.129-04:002016-05-25T01:51:38.129-04:00You probably can't read.
German rounds pierce...You probably can't read.<br /><br />German rounds pierced German armour.<br /><br />I had known of liars ; I had known of damned liars ; now I know you and your website. <br /><br />Don't know if I will comment anymore on your <i>tankarchives</i> lying collector. It's a kind of childish joke.<br /><br />Hope it is. <br /><br />Have a nice novel !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-16970890878095170742016-05-20T15:31:23.700-04:002016-05-20T15:31:23.700-04:00That is not the case. German rounds were not even ...That is not the case. German rounds were not even fired at the Tiger B, they were fired at the Ferdinand.<br /><br />Two Tiger Bs were sent to Kubinka, one to be shot up, and one for mobility trials. I don't know the numbers, sorry.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-63765245181013640692016-05-20T12:34:19.231-04:002016-05-20T12:34:19.231-04:00For sure,saying that this tank was destroyed befor...For sure,saying that this tank was destroyed <b>before</b> the test would be ridiculous ! None says that !<br /><br /><b>Yourr</b> photographs show it was destroyed by Soviet tests with German Pzgr. 39/43's and German Pzgr. 40/42's – as long as you're answer means you agree that the <i>Tiger B</i> allegedly destroyed by Soviet 122 mm rounds had already been destroyed by German rounds. <br /><br />From the three <i>Tiger B</i>'s taken by the Red Army during the Sandomierz Bulge battle, this one had been destroyed in tests, and another one is today displayed in Russia, near Moscow, in the Kubinka Tank Museum. Do you know its Fgst.Nr, please ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-86285821531872998522016-05-20T10:48:45.743-04:002016-05-20T10:48:45.743-04:00The photograph from Achtung, Panzer shows the tank...The photograph from Achtung, Panzer shows the tank after the end of the test. I link to the full document with the Soviet test in the comments of the article IIRC, there every shot is numbered and the results recorded. The tank is also photographed after every shot. You can see that it is perfectly clean before the tests started, the assertion that it was destroyed before testing is ridiculous.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-7415710109506344462016-05-20T07:47:03.042-04:002016-05-20T07:47:03.042-04:00« … the only difference is that a few more shells ...« … the only difference is that a few more shells have hitten this Tiger B <b>than</b> [had hitten it] on the photographs of your own article, here. »<br /><br />Sorry for the mistake !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-28120107151784985732016-05-20T07:42:01.998-04:002016-05-20T07:42:01.998-04:00Evidence it's the same test :
This photograph...Evidence it's the same test :<br /><br />This <a href="http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/image007.jpg" rel="nofollow">photograph</a> from the page of <i>Achtung, Panzer !</i> I already gave the link of. The same holes on the turret front, the same destruction on the glacis ; the only difference is that a few more shells have hitten this <i>Tiger B</i> on the photographs of your own article, here.<br /><br />So, before « <i>testing</i> » its own rounds, the Red Army had already destroyed the <i>Tiger B</i>… with Pzgr. 39/43's (German <i>Tiger B</i>'s rounds) and with a few Pzgr. 40/42's (German Panther rounds, with carbonid tungsten core).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-23031213679440916602016-05-20T06:01:45.145-04:002016-05-20T06:01:45.145-04:00In another article from your website (December 201...In another article from your website (<a href="http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2014/12/more-ferdinand-penetration-tests.html?m=0" rel="nofollow">December 2014</a>), someone commenting proved that the totally destroyed armour of a <i>Ferdinand</i>, allegedly having been destroyed by Soviet 152 mm shells only, in fact had been pierced and weakened by many Germam rounds – during Soviet tests – before collapsing.<br /><br />So my question is : could Soviet shells penetrate German tanks' heavy armours <i>only</i> <b>after</b> these armours had been destroyed by German shells ???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-50431464963120986932016-05-20T03:24:29.608-04:002016-05-20T03:24:29.608-04:00My link for your March 2013 article doesn't wo...My link for your March 2013 article doesn't work. I hope that <a href="http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/03/is-2-vs-german-big-cats.html?m=0" rel="nofollow">this one</a> will do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-90497443139116789092016-05-20T03:03:06.662-04:002016-05-20T03:03:06.662-04:00Regarding the test with the Tiger B…
I CAN'T...Regarding the test with the <i>Tiger B</i>…<br /><br /><br /><b>I CAN'T UNDERSTAND : HELP !</b><br /><br />According to page 42 from website <a href="http://panzer-war.com/page42.html" rel="nofollow"><i>Panzer War</i></a>, this test is the same than the test quoted by website <a href="http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger-tamers-battle-for-sandomierz-bulge-august-of-1944.htm" rel="nofollow"><i>Achtung, Panzer !</i></a> as an evidence of the low quality of <i>Tiger B</i>'s armour, and of the efficiency of either the 100 mm BS-3 and the 122 mm A-19 armour-piercing rounds against the <i>Tiger B</i>'s armour.<br /><br />May I understand that the Red Army destroyed <i>Tiger B</i>'s front armour with German rounds (Pzgr. 39/43 and Pzgr. 40/42), then pretended the job was made by Soviet rounds ? Or is it a mistake from website <i>Panzer War</i> ?<br /><br />For your own, you regarded, on <a href="tankarchives.blogspot.fr/2013/03/is-2-vs-german-big-cats.html?m=0" rel="nofollow">March 2013</a>, the two tests as different ones, or didn't see it was the same one, whereas photos suggest it is the same one.<br /><br /><b>HELP !</b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-58295451413972172262014-12-18T00:16:01.437-05:002014-12-18T00:16:01.437-05:00interesting article, I wish there were more pictur...interesting article, I wish there were more picturesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-21099789774439350392013-06-29T17:14:52.885-04:002013-06-29T17:14:52.885-04:00Not that I have. Not that I have. Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-86551693953276769882013-06-29T15:31:27.765-04:002013-06-29T15:31:27.765-04:00were any tests of the german 75mm done against the...were any tests of the german 75mm done against the frontal turret? ingame wot has UFP at ~212mm+ effective armor, and 75mm L70 APCR at ~194mm pen, so this fits. meanwhile, turret face is weaker.Tedster59https://www.blogger.com/profile/03250784315868072030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-60174600302010684672013-06-26T07:07:03.542-04:002013-06-26T07:07:03.542-04:00Withstanding its own gun at frontal arc is pretty ...Withstanding its own gun at frontal arc is pretty universal "good enough" rule of thumb in tank design. Like KV-1, T-34-76, IS-1, IS-3, M4, M26. Great many non-upgunned tanks adhere to this. Even modern tanks strive to do this.Vlevsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-52413921376026775852013-04-20T05:09:39.043-04:002013-04-20T05:09:39.043-04:00Seems possible. You'd think that they'd cl...Seems possible. You'd think that they'd clue in on their metallurgy issues at some point otherwise.rossmumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15145748774081415499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-41988921553316101062013-04-15T12:34:46.384-04:002013-04-15T12:34:46.384-04:00This leads me to believe that the Germans tested t...This leads me to believe that the Germans tested their armor with German guns and when they found their guns didn't penetrate their armor, they were satisfied that no one else's would either. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com