tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post4902360909615913382..comments2024-03-28T14:35:30.147-04:00Comments on Tank Archives: HE vs. ArmourPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-71724646773680987272014-12-17T09:53:56.880-05:002014-12-17T09:53:56.880-05:00Nope, only direct impact.Nope, only direct impact.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-18189082022225516152014-12-16T16:26:51.820-05:002014-12-16T16:26:51.820-05:00Very interesting thanks for posting :)
Do you hav...Very interesting thanks for posting :)<br /><br />Do you have anything on Soviet research on Fragments vs armour?Bob Mackenziehttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/bob_mackenzie/index.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-51043416629733581382014-12-09T09:12:22.513-05:002014-12-09T09:12:22.513-05:00If I understand the paper's conclusion properl...If I understand the paper's conclusion properly, the "impulse" is not only the shell's impact, but includes the chemical action of the explosive. Overall, the HESH shells do have an advantage all else being equal, but not as much as people would expect because the contribution of the explosive is only 5-10 percent at typical impact velocities. Even assuming the HESH round's more efficient use of the chemical action increases its contribution by a factor of a few times still makes it only 20-40 percent of the total, not enough to be decisive and perhaps enough to argue a better antiarmor effect can be achieved by flinging a simple HE shell faster.<br /><br />It is not clear whether the RPG would have the least impulse because the HEAT jet is hypersonic (much faster than any shell listed here). You are right though in that it would have been interesting to see how these numbers compare to the impulse of HEAT, and also AP and APDS / APFSDS rounds.arkhangelskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247250672432027166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-2387317751628383652014-12-09T00:38:33.495-05:002014-12-09T00:38:33.495-05:00Its not a practical way to measure the effectivene...Its not a practical way to measure the effectiveness of HE on armor by impulse, what way HE working on armor is also important, HESH is flattened on armor and then detonated, and the paper did not tell anythimg about the possible different itmay make. Also, a RPG would has fewest impulse but must be most effective against 170mm armor, again, the way HE fillings working on armors is i'portantAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18334941093862072172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-33607079798621697632014-12-06T15:51:36.038-05:002014-12-06T15:51:36.038-05:00That table doesn't tell the whole story. The ...That table doesn't tell the whole story. The 152mm would have a V of 800m/s at ~1750m. But would have a V of less that 700m/s at ~3000m. The 120mm would still have an impulse of 12.5 vs turret at that range.<br />-mAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-28954189038624629212014-12-03T09:07:02.975-05:002014-12-03T09:07:02.975-05:00There is nothing in the paper about that, sadly.There is nothing in the paper about that, sadly.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-80404413327578299002014-12-03T02:41:37.452-05:002014-12-03T02:41:37.452-05:00This conclusion is a bit too easy, consider that:
...This conclusion is a bit too easy, consider that:<br />>>These shells are fired at armoured plates 2700 by 2500 by 170 mm, with sensors behind them to measure the impulse, which is judged by the scientists to be proportional to the damage caused inside the tank to its crew and equipment.<<<br />I guess the British didnt come to the very same conclusion. This is a vague guess as it stands there, Do You have more info EE on how the Soviets came to this conclusion? Thor_Hammerschlaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14230343757139315722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-37395084111736046402014-12-02T12:34:56.907-05:002014-12-02T12:34:56.907-05:00For a mass produced gun that throws the OF29, ther...For a mass produced gun that throws the OF29, there's the very famous 2S5 (muzzle velocity 945m/s). Though that's a open-mounted SPG, the Soviets have a penchant of using things for direct fire. (BTW, the 2S3 SPH fires the OF45 ... a different projectile).<br /><br />The chart does provide some insight as to why the Soviets never got around to making a HESH round - after reading a table like this, neither would you :-)arkhangelskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247250672432027166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-41839731318665919592014-12-02T10:57:20.521-05:002014-12-02T10:57:20.521-05:00It's important to evaluate a prospective weapo...It's important to evaluate a prospective weapon before putting it into mass production.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-53480739466678202762014-12-02T10:35:39.871-05:002014-12-02T10:35:39.871-05:00Both were not mass produced, so it still doesnt ma...Both were not mass produced, so it still doesnt make sense imo.Thor_Hammerschlaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09052934459112536174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-76012222266433658282014-12-02T09:48:33.880-05:002014-12-02T09:48:33.880-05:00Not a tank, but the USSR had high velocity 152 mm ...Not a tank, but the USSR had high velocity 152 mm guns on self propelled mounts: <br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU-152_%22Taran%22<br />https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/СУ-152ПPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-31659550687580853392014-12-02T07:21:45.732-05:002014-12-02T07:21:45.732-05:00For the l11 its 670m/s according to Wikipedia.
The...For the l11 its 670m/s according to Wikipedia.<br />The 152mm gun was not a tank gun - why is it then listed here?Thor_Hammerschlaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14230343757139315722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-83763013341148973232014-12-02T07:05:24.972-05:002014-12-02T07:05:24.972-05:00>Than HESH is compared to HE on a much lower ve...>Than HESH is compared to HE on a much lower velocity making the results<br /><br />If 620m/s is the speed of the HESH round coming out from the British L11 120mm, then it makes sense. They are comparing the weapons as complete projectile-gun complexes.arkhangelskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15247250672432027166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-22265043879333373492014-12-02T03:18:14.082-05:002014-12-02T03:18:14.082-05:00The approach doesnt make much sense imo. First of ...The approach doesnt make much sense imo. First of it is explained that the Impuls is greatly depending on the shells velocity. Than HESH is compared to HE on a much lower velocity making the results, according to fig1 (nonlinear dependency, makes linear interpolation useless as well), not compareable.<br /><br />From an enginneering aspect however it is visible that HESH creates an impulse about 1,5x higher than that of soviet HE. That is a good result actually.Thor_Hammerschlaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14230343757139315722noreply@blogger.com