tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post7349927236899912151..comments2024-03-28T14:35:30.147-04:00Comments on Tank Archives: Pz.Kpfw.II Ausf.J: Heavy Steps of a Light TankPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-972433275522479652018-06-22T12:13:44.547-04:002018-06-22T12:13:44.547-04:00I have to disagree on the Panther. It had a lot of...I have to disagree on the Panther. It had a lot of faults, but the things you list arent those faults. 75mm HE rounds were plenty adequate at the time (british and americans found them suitable for infantry support, and the russians also used the equivalent 76.2mm caliber for the same purpose). I know german HE rounds were slightly subpar, but they got the job done and were highly accurate. <br />The other thing is the weak side armor. Technically, yes its a weakness, but if "Could use more armor" is your argument then look at a Maus. Now, if you actually look at the Panther with the layout of near-immune frontal armor against the most typical AT guns and thinner side armor, it actually looks a heck of a lot like a modern tank has pretty much the same idea behind their armor. Sure, some variations came up as time progressed like adding extra protection on the sides near the front, but as it was back then it couldnt have been done much better. <br />The Builderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242924608059447367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-29485098145707467502018-06-17T09:44:52.173-04:002018-06-17T09:44:52.173-04:00I think there is always an element of trial-and-er...I think there is always an element of trial-and-error in any kind of R&D. In WWII and the years before, these included:<br /><br />1) multi-turreted tanks<br />2) multi-gun tanks<br />3) small-caliber gun tanks (included most British, and most early war German tanks).<br />4) superheavy tanks as the war progressed<br />5) light tanks in general (though the concept lived on up to the Sheridan in the US);<br />6) Into the postwar era, modest-caliber high-velocity gun tanks like the Panther. (Yeah, I was told in my younger years that the "Panther was the best tank in the world" but now I see it as an evolutionary dead-end tank, for its puny HE round and laughably weak side armor makes it completely unsuitable for many of the things a tank is supposed to do, like infantry support).<br /><br />All these might have made sense to somebody, or may have been useful in some roles, until they were shown to be inadequate or at least non-optimal. <br />Stewart Millenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01261690405884935161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-41499853014103155302018-06-14T01:47:51.294-04:002018-06-14T01:47:51.294-04:00Sloped armor on halftracks was a bit easier since ...Sloped armor on halftracks was a bit easier since the armor was substantially thinner making it easier to incorporate a limited slope (30°) and still get away with using the same viewports. The Builderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242924608059447367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-53243997936713025342018-06-13T23:25:44.695-04:002018-06-13T23:25:44.695-04:00And yet ironically German designers building half ...And yet ironically German designers building half tracks and armored cars were obsessed with sloped armor. But Builder is correct that getting the manufacturers of viewports and bow MG mounts to change their product for a few vehicles can be difficult. Sager ,William A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830369127449299646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-89261711932897467452018-06-12T13:33:52.545-04:002018-06-12T13:33:52.545-04:00Yup. Switching from vertical to sloped armor is a ...Yup. Switching from vertical to sloped armor is a bigger step than to just making the plates in a different shape. Anything that goes into, onto or through the plate has to be reengineered as well, like viewports, MG mounts etc. <br />British are a good example of that since they only started using sloped fronts from the Centurion onward (and got rid of the bow MG and iirc any direct vision port) even though even back with the Matilda they were well aware of sloped armor. The Builderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242924608059447367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-19122561086322025762018-06-12T07:59:51.588-04:002018-06-12T07:59:51.588-04:00Well this *was* from before German tank design pri...Well this *was* from before German tank design principles had gotten past "yo dawg heard you like boxes so we put a box on your box"...<br /><br />It wasn't until they started working on what would become the Panther before the idea of sloping tank armour got any traction.Kellomieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04915110653443066212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-76345034813179660392018-06-11T11:37:28.703-04:002018-06-11T11:37:28.703-04:00But did they need to go all the way up to 80mm? 35...But did they need to go all the way up to 80mm? 35mm sloped frontal armor would of protected it from light anti tank guns, and the tank would of had some cross country capability.<br /> Sager ,William A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830369127449299646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-59507715203608374242018-06-11T10:16:03.599-04:002018-06-11T10:16:03.599-04:00If the tank was armed with something less useless ...If the tank was armed with something less useless than an autocannon, then certainly. An assault tank with a good HE round and 80 mm of front armour would have actually been useful in the early war.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-16543709983796011052018-06-11T05:26:10.523-04:002018-06-11T05:26:10.523-04:00Well it's not like the underlying concept was ...Well it's not like the underlying concept was bad. Infantry could certainly use a close-support vehicle that could bounce enemy fire, and if you could make one small and cheap so much the better. But arming them with guns that struggled already with field fortifications was a little...Kellomieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04915110653443066212noreply@blogger.com