tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post8159664592631289873..comments2024-03-28T14:35:30.147-04:00Comments on Tank Archives: Porsche's Tiger: A Victim of Dirty CompetitionPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-42305589114418313172020-12-11T00:47:36.874-05:002020-12-11T00:47:36.874-05:00True.True.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454661411341806352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-10309663931330324082019-11-17T19:37:43.491-05:002019-11-17T19:37:43.491-05:00The USA fooled around with the T 23 electric tank ...The USA fooled around with the T 23 electric tank at the same time, and couldn’t make it work.Captain Hookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14316740171264434440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-73730383467367344312018-10-17T15:04:56.453-04:002018-10-17T15:04:56.453-04:00He's sounding more and more like a less dysfun...He's sounding more and more like a less dysfunctional version of Tesla tbh.Kellomieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04915110653443066212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-24170611664316144772018-10-17T03:28:11.245-04:002018-10-17T03:28:11.245-04:00Kellomies, Porsche had willfully ignored practical...Kellomies, Porsche had willfully ignored practicality several times in his career in favor of what he thought was the technically best solution (which being Porsche, was usually electrical in some way). This is the biggest reason he kept getting hired and then fired by a wide array of firms. He would be hired for his technical brilliance, and then fired when his developments proved industrially or economically infeasible.<br /><br />I can only assume that Hitler's infatuation with Porsche is why Porsche was entertained for so long. Amusingly, Albert Speer was greatly disenchanted with Porsche and got in arguments with Hitler on a few occasions for Porsche's pet projects (again because of his 'screw economics' mentality). Tokyo Morosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17319803375878393783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-51212018576432354982018-10-17T03:27:41.014-04:002018-10-17T03:27:41.014-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tokyo Morosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17319803375878393783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-42477088026563030632018-10-16T19:33:39.365-04:002018-10-16T19:33:39.365-04:00The Germans were rationing comparatively plentiful...The Germans were rationing comparatively plentiful steel already before the war, Porsche could not *possibly* have been unaware of the copper supply issues. That he forged on with his petrol-electric concepts anyway implies wilful disregard of such matters; in a sense perhaps admirable integrity of an "auteur" who refuses to compromise his vision but casting some real doubts on his skills as an industrialist and businessman.<br /><br />Why the prospective customer didn't hit the brakes far earlier I have no idea, though from what I know of the general internal workings of the Reich at those levels I'd be willing to bet money that rank cronyism and string-pulling were involved...Kellomieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04915110653443066212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-61637572798304475072018-10-16T15:59:16.677-04:002018-10-16T15:59:16.677-04:00This happens a lot in engineering, the customer wi...This happens a lot in engineering, the customer will make bad requirements and then blame you ;) If the economy couldn't shoulder the weight of the extra copper, that fact should have been communicated in the requirements or soon after the customer learned about the fact that such an unacceptable transmission was used. There were reserved variants without electric motors, and yet those were not prioritized.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622237223229485503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-50733187776110640582018-10-16T15:37:02.520-04:002018-10-16T15:37:02.520-04:00Kellomies Agreed! Most likely Porsche assumed that...Kellomies Agreed! Most likely Porsche assumed that market economics would prevail and folks would just mine more copper and other strategic materials. To be fair Hitler liked Porsche and this most likely went to his head. But yes they should of canceled his tank before the first one was finished. That or build just one without armor and use it as a utility vehicle. <br />Sager ,William A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830369127449299646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-46643401706328539832018-10-16T07:33:19.022-04:002018-10-16T07:33:19.022-04:00It's pretty simple, Porsche started his life a...It's pretty simple, Porsche started his life as an electrical engineer, and basically made the backbone of his entire career in electrical transmissions. It was a concept he was extremely familiar with, and greatly believed in.<br /><br />He also had the feeling that as a engineer, it was not his job to determine what is economical, that was for his superiors to decide. It was his job to deliver technically. (Professor Porsche's Wars goes over this quite nicely)Tokyo Morosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17319803375878393783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-11165458174886451502018-10-16T00:31:02.272-04:002018-10-16T00:31:02.272-04:00I know of the arguments for the setup, it's gr...I know of the arguments for the setup, it's great for heavy vehicles (which is why variations of the theme were and still are used in eg. locomotives). But it's frankly baffling that Porsche apparently simply ignored, and nobody from the strategic/industrial planning office side seems to have pointed out to him, the very relevant raw-materials supply concerns involved.Kellomieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04915110653443066212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-85036342415200577412018-10-15T15:46:12.372-04:002018-10-15T15:46:12.372-04:00Kellomies. In Porsche's defense every vehicle ...Kellomies. In Porsche's defense every vehicle built with some form of trick transmission which bypassed using brakes to steer tanks, had suffered heavy breakdown rates. From a simple engineering viewpoint the petrol-electric appears to be obvious. Don't get me wrong, you are 100% correct that Germany simply could not spare all the copper. Sort of like modern day environmentalist never take into account the need for copper and rare Earth materials to electrify our transportation systems. In their minds it's as simple as buying Tesla's.<br /> Sager ,William A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830369127449299646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-14539221590335794982018-10-15T13:11:51.066-04:002018-10-15T13:11:51.066-04:00...and any number of other purposes, notably virtu......and any number of other purposes, notably virtually anything involving electricity in some fashion. I vaguely recall once seeing a discussion on the German surface warships and a passing mention that an overhaul of, IIRC, one heavy cruiser included replacing nearly ten kilometers of electrical cabling...<br /><br />Porsche's enduring fascination with petrol-electric drivetrains was going up against some very formidable economic maths. Small wonder the powers that be invariably ended up choosing the purely mechanical alternatives.Kellomieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04915110653443066212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-69034201985148735892018-10-15T08:09:16.500-04:002018-10-15T08:09:16.500-04:00One of the problems with the electrical transmissi...One of the problems with the electrical transmission was that it used a lot of copper, a strategic metal already in short supply and badly needed for construction of U-Boats.Inhapihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09389333832375000604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5030145265861917845.post-40240280279254375772018-10-14T23:56:10.762-04:002018-10-14T23:56:10.762-04:00I can't help but think that somewhere along th...I can't help but think that somewhere along the line the possibility of giving the Porsche tank thinner armor must of come up. Someone must of noticed during trials that it was too heavy to go up hill.Sager ,William A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06830369127449299646noreply@blogger.com