Thursday 3 January 2019

Schmeisser

"Report #405
Small Arms Scientific Research Proving Grounds
December 17th, 1941
Shurovo, Moscow oblast

RE: trials of foreign submachineguns in comparison with the domestic model 1940 submachinegun and model 1941 submachinegun
...
The trigger mechanism of the Schmeisser submachinegun (see diagram) consists of 12 parts in a complex arrangement, and in addition has 6 small springs. Its positive sides include a good ratio of the sear shoulders, which allows the effort on the trigger to be low.

This mechanism of the safety and fire selector is needlessly complicated. In addition, a large amount of small springs (6) makes it unreliable in its function. 
...
The trigger mechanism of the Schmeisser submachinegun is a good example of how not to design trigger mechanisms with fire selectors."

7 comments:

  1. Are we talking about the ultra rare MP-41 which was made from left over MP-28 lower receivers combined with modified MP-40 upper receivers?

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    1. It's unlikely that any of those would have been captured by 1941.

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  2. If we discuss about WWII SMGs- that's interesting, because on one internet forum I see opinion that only people which can't shot from PPSh-41 can praising this gun. Interesting, because in Polish Broń i Amunicja (Arms and Ammo) military magazine we can found WWII SMG's comparision and in this comparision PPSh-41 look pretty good. BTW, some parts of this comparision we can found in one Polish internet forum:


    First part of accuracy comparision. 5 round burst. Tester shot 5 bursts, every bursts have 5 rounds (25 rounds in test). 25 meters distance. Target- shooting target (50x50 centimeters) which hold "chest + head silhuette". This shooting target was located on paper which have 50x80 centimeters dimension.

    -PPSh-41. 22 shots in chest+head silhuette, 25 rounds in 50x50 target.

    -PPS-43. 16 shots in chest+head silhuette, 20 rounds in 50x50 target, 25 in 50x80 target.

    -STEN Mk III. 17 shots in chest+head silhuette, 22 rounds in 50x50 tager, 25 rounds in 50x80 target.

    -Thompson M1928A1. 12 shots in chest+head silhuette, 19 rounds in 50x50 tager, 23 rounds in 50x80 target (2 shots miss 50x80 centimeters target).


    Second part of accuracy comparision. 3 round burst. Tester shot 5 bursts, every bursts have 3 rounds (15 rounds in test). 25 meters distance. Shoting from standing position. Target- shooting target (50x50 centimeters) which hold "chest + head silhuette". This shooting target was located on paper which have 50x80 centimeters dimension.

    -PPSh-41. 15 shots in chest+head silhuette.

    -PPS-43. 15 shots in chest+head silhuette.

    -STEN Mk III. 12 shots in chest+head silhuette.

    -Thompson M1928A2. 5 shots in chest+head silhuette.

    More information you can find on this forum- http://il2forum.pl/index.php/topic,7791.msg271898.html#msg271898

    BTW, man which made this test have big knowledge about WWII weapon, and have pretty objective view on armament from different countries.

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    Replies
    1. AKMS Ian McCollum from Forgotten Weapons would agree with you. Ian was quite surprised that the PPSh-41 with it's higher rate of fire shot smother than the PPS-43. Ian was also surprised that the early M-1921 Thompson with it's higher rate of fire shot better than the M 1928. Most of our troops were better off with the M-3 Grease Gun.

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    2. Ian confirm theory which I found many years ago in old Polish book about automatic weapon (Automatyczna broń strzelecka/Automatic small arms). In this theory: low rate of fire- good accuracy, big rate of fire- also good accuracy, medium rate of fire- bad accuracy.

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  3. The "Schmeisser" is quite obviously an older MP 28 (which was re-designed by Schmeisser from the old MP 18), not the MP 40.

    The MP 40 did not have a fire selctor and only fired full auto, and its safety mechanism was quite primitive.

    MP 28 on the other hand had a big "Schmeisser Patent" text on the top of it, had fire selector and a delicate firing mechanism, like many early submachineguns. It was not but perhaps a handful of SS units.

    "The MP28 also introduced a semiautomatic selector switch, where the MP18 had been a fully automatic only design. It is the presence of this selector button over the trigger, along with a tangent sight instead of a simple flip-up notch that can be used to distinguish between and updated MP18 and an MP28.

    While the MP28 was not formally adopted by the German military, it was used by police and SS units, as well as being adopted or copied by a wide selection of other nations, including Portugal, Spain, China, Japan, and Ethiopia."

    https://youtu.be/xVBEvmFoSzM?t=263

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